I think that Steph is special because he has a pretty unique scenario. He's shown that he can be a dominant second option, a dominant first option, and arguably an even more dominant off-ball player while also revolutionizing the game. I'm by no means a warriors fan (roll knicks), but my utmost respect goes to that organization and how they've grown steph to be the core
@Justin Crawley Steph is still going strong after putting up 31, 6 and 5 on 48/43/86 splits. J.Poole and Wiggins getting better, with Steph at the helm, and the OG big 3 can compete for multiple chips.
@Justin Crawley Zeke can't hold a candle to Steph's career. Steph is still at an elite level at 34. Where was Zeke at 34 lol? Steph can play at this level for another 3 years top no cap, but imma sit back and watch Steph's HOF career continue to unfold.
I know you’ve already put the asterisk that there are other factors than just the numbers that go into deciding the finals MVP. But specifically in the Steph / KD situation it’s so much more important, Steph is the arguably most unselfish star in the NBA, and when you rewatch the games you’ll see that KD could only put up those numbers and win those games cause of Steph’s magnetism of defenders opening up unbelievable spaces for KD. Steph sacrificed his numbers so another star can shine, he won rings for it but is always discredited because of it. Remember when KD left and Klay was injured and Steph was dropping James-Harden-in-Rockets-prime kind numbers? Steph can do so much more but he’s part of a system especially with Kerr’s impact on his minutes, it’s both a blessing and a curse. Still the best naturally gifted player in my books by a mile - man was born to play basketball yes!
Everything you said is correct but I disagree with that last part about being "naturally gifted". It kind of discredits the amount of work he has, and continues to put in.
i mean, yes, but curry playing the way he did allowing kd to put up ridiculous numbers means that kd is still the mvp, while curry supplemented his play.
I think the stats don't show how good was Dirk in 2011 because his legendary run wasn't because the numbers were insane, it was because he beat eight first ballot hall of famers in a championship run.
You’re misunderstanding, the best player in the finals was Wade that series. But Dirk was really good in that whole run, and the numbers show that, but they also show that Wade was better than him in the series
There's a difference between MVP(voting wise) and best player on a championship team. One is visceral, the other nuanced. KD is the former, Steph is the latter. KD put up big numbers his entire career, but he didn't win a title until he played on Steph's team.
One significant impact of Steph's game isn't fully represented in his stats: That's his gravity. His gravity was also one of the big reasons why KD could perform as well as he did in the 2017 and 2018 finals. I think if you want to compare Steph with other players you would also have to consider this. Since his gravity is one of his most impactful traits as a great player.
@Will Vrooman there were many plays in the 17 18 finals where durant just has an open drive to the hoop bc the cavs d just chose to put d on curry instead of playing on the ball. I still think kd deserved both but it wouldn’t have been possible if curry was not on the floor
@Will Vrooman Nah this isn’t true. He’s a shooting guard. If he gets the ball he’s looking to score. His gravity allows his team to play 4-3 when he’s not scoring.
I think stephs gravity would mean a lot more if he had more assists. Not to say he has a bad assist count, but you’d expect a player with such good shooting to take more advantage of their gravity if you’re gonna claim their gravity as such a factor. Players with massively smaller shooting percentages such as Chris Paul put out much less gravity yet still get more assists than curry.
I'm honestly not hating. But did you notice the editing errors in this vid. One table was used twice.comapring two players when he was talking about 2 others. and When comparing steph and Leonard, the name was kobe and steph
Tabloid quality at best in terms of analysis, good storytelling though. His videos are full of flaws. In this case it starts at 0:00, where he conveniently merges MJs 1995 comeback and his 1996 season one year later for dramatization. He's not legit.
5:40 I too used to wonder why Dirk’s performance felt so good. One thing this model doesn’t capture understandably, but it’s significant and I think illuminates that je ne sais quoi Dirk had going: look at the points per game spread intra team. It was a low-ish scoring finals. Dirk’s % of team points allocation all series was tremendous. Never a night off. I mean look at game 3. Dirk shot 52% for a double double game high 36. Of the starters, a single player had double digit points. Technically Shawn had 10. But you get my point. He accounted for 42% of the teams points. Dirk didn’t have a Wade or Bosh. Jason Terry went off twice. But Dirk was efficient night in, night out. Eating clock, making shots count against a formidable big 3. It worked. And his play style was 100% the game changer.
@Jeremy Ness I'm just real, that finals doesn't make Dirk worse player because he is already incredible player and has amazing career with his MVP, title and Finals MVP and many other acomplishments, but in those finals Wade was better player than him.
@Hristijan Dimitrovski I’m blind? Why ? What’s the point of that? Do you remember that series? How he was guarded? There’s a reason the mavs gave him the green light. Bc he was THE guy and was guarded like it. Pretty obvious you didn’t understand my comment. Dirk never had anyone to help alleviate pressure or get open looks. Hence why I cited attribution mate. Pay attention
Aside from what the numbers show, i think we also need to consider how the opposing teams deal with the other players... I mean it's not really easy to drop 30 getting harassed and double teamed all the time
celtics had some dumb ass defense ideas in game 5 too.. disregard every other warrior, and stick to steph like glue. turns out the other players can make some big plays too
Everybody forgets that Jerry West is the first and only man to win the Finals MVP on the losing squad. Happened back in 1969, Jerry scored 38 PPG and the Lakers still came up short.
With my series on this topic, I’ve had to think about this a LOT. Was cool to hear your thoughts on it, and hey, and choices are nearly identical! Haha. Keep doing your thing, Jxmy. You set the standard for the rest of us
@JxmyHighroller what happened to your other videos like the time when Ariza and his uncle talked trash to young LBJ and The King totally schooled Ariza and his squad? and the video with the worst NBA predictions? those are some good stuff. worth re watching while waiting for your new contents
Being curious about the number Curry accumulated this finals, it's pretty great and his highest so far. With a 23.2 GmSc and adding 10.9 BPM it sums to 34.1 MVP SCORE, including 31.2 PPG 6 RPG 5 APG 62 %TS
I think the Mj and Giannis performances are even more impressive than the numbers showed. Both were really clutch multiple times and had some of the greatest highlights of the finals ever
Yeah, i think it would be interesting to see a stat describing the value of made shots. So a gamewinning threepoint buzzer beater, shot over the dpoy would be the most valuable shot and would a large score. While a completely wide open layup while ahead by 50 would add practically nothing. With that stat we could truly see who performs bet on ball in clutch moments.
This is one of the things I always think. In my case for Manu Ginobili. He had a lot of great games, but he didn't put 35pts games all the time like other people. However, whenever he came on the court maybe he made 2 or 3 three pointers, but those were like massive at the end of a quarter or whenever the team needed that morale. I think Kobe was the same. Besides the raw numbers, he was electrifying to play with. And that energy (as he said himself) is not something you can show in statistics.
The biggest thing I get from consistently watching Jxmy's videos is just how dominant MJ truly was. He's basically at the top of every freakin' stat. And, just behind him, is LeBron. Almost every time.
@Caleb A only reason that stat is true because he was playing with ZERO all star teammates during those seasons. He took a bottom of the barrel Bulls and brought them to the top with the help of Pippen.
@Reese No excuse to get swept. Y'all act like Jordan getting swept in the 1st round by an all time great Celtics team is some kind of blight, so stop acting like LeBron getting swept in the Finals is just another day in the neighborhood.
After watching kawhi and iguadola win finals MVP, I felt like they won the award because they were guarding LeBron. Not that they shut him down, but they were the primary defender on the toughest defensive matchup. That is why I think they won the award
@Ibnziyad Tariq totally correct. you can't perform as well when the whole opposing team is focused on you. but with that said, the argument in the video are still valid for comparing players that were guarded equally.
@Montage HQ you guys don't understand what best means then, of course Wade had great stats, since Dallas was focusing on LeBron. Dirk on the other hand was the focus of Miami's defense and scored at will in the 4th quarters, that is the best player
16 th on trending, Can't believe it, was with you guys from the beginning, can't believe, from where we started and look at us today. Love you Jimmy. Keep doing the great work ❤️
As a non biased Bucks fan, Giannis’ performance in the Finals was legendary! From coming back after that horrendous looking injury, to the big game defining moments, and the 50 piece! He was spectacular and real NBA fans will agree. Props for bringing his performance up.
@Norberto Perez I’m a hawks fan, but Giannis is my favorite player. I agree with you that that game really cemented him among the all time greats even at his young age.
i mean i think anyone with that body structure would dominate no matter what lmao bro has no skill theres reason his finals performence is overlook this guy just euro steped dunk like in 2k11 when you would spin and dunk on anyone that is just what gannis is no skill when his athlesism fades so will his carrer
I'm completely okay with the Finals MVP going to a player on the winning team if the series isn't close. Giving Finals MVP to Lebron in 2014 or 2018 -- when his teams were utterly dominated -- would feel like the wrong result. Putting up great numbers doesn't mean much if it does not contribute to the team winning in some capacity. I'd support Lebron getting the Finals MVP in 2015, though, since the Cavs were 2 wins from the title with a team that was much less talented than the Warriors.
It’s called Finals MVP, team who win get the final trophy cause it’s team accomplishment. Final MVP goes to best player on the floor. It suppose to value the best player like Jerry West who outplayed other players but never won the award. Tbh that’s how it should of been.
they were matched with big 4 after 2016 so and numbers are the only thing that tells what a player has done in those games ........it does matter atleast it makes us know he put up a fight but the fight wasnt enough to beat the giants
One significant impact of Steph's game isn't fully represented in his stats: That's his gravity. His gravity was also one of the big reasons why KD could perform as well as he did in the 2017 and 2018 finals. I think if you want to compare Steph with other players you would also have to consider this. Since his gravity is one of his most impactful traits as a great player.
I'd be curious as to the FMVP numbers in '96 for games 1-3, as it really seemed to me watching that series at the time that after getting up 3-0 the Bulls just took their foot off the gas until game 6.
It was Dirk's entire playoff run, not specifically the finals, that was so special. his series against the lakers and thunder were the truly legendary performances. In the finals he wasn't AS good as the previous two series, but still definitely the fmvp
I dont think I have ever been let down by one of ur videos. They always are so interesting and fun to watch but the best part is the amount of effort and extra research that goes into each video, its truly amazing keep it up i love the vids
I just started the video, but already enjoyed the shout-out to Kemp's series. My favourite player at the time was, of course, MJ, but Shawn Kemp was definitely my second favourite, both these distant from the third. He is a criminally under-appreciated player. Sure, his peak did not last very long, but what a peak! Pure joy to watch play with Payton.
Hats off to you! You always do such a great job in your stat line. The NBA should follow your guidelines because I've been thinking this way for many many years and always was disappointed when that MVP trophy was handed out to whatever individual player the NBA decided who should receive it.
These numbers do not even remotely make it objective. If this was how basketball contribution was decided then Steph would have 1 chip and LeBron would have 7. It’s sad that a video like this brainwashed people who don’t understand the game.
I think it can be fun to look at advanced stats like this, but drawing conclusions purely off of stats like BPM really filters out a lot of the finer details of the game.
Love the vid, as jimmy can do no wrong. With that being said, if you watched that series, you know Iggy deserves his MVP. He absolutely exhausted LeBron for those six games, to the point where Bron's legs were absolutely flat in each of those fourth quarters. His defense alone put them in a position to win that series. Especially considering Curry struggled in two of their wins
Giannis’s Finals MVP would carry more weight if they factored “overcoming weakness” as a actual stat. Knocking down all those free throws speaks volumes.
@Gabriel Manuntag bro you can’t really use the “nets were healthy” argument at all, that team was a complete shell of what they were last year. I’m pretty sure we all know the nets would’ve beaten the bucks had kyrie AND harden been fully healthy
@Gabriel Manuntag you just typed allat for no reason my boi I already know this…i just know the league scripted that shit n i can careless for scripted shit🤷🏾♂️
@Tee Why i believe this and im a giannis fan but them two teams still had injuries too. booker had broken nose, cp had messed up shoulder, covid and a bad hamstring. Giannis had a knee issue and jrue broke his hand
I love all these stats and the in-depth dive into all of the finals! My only thought. When winning is the value, how can the Most valuable Player be from the losing team? You were the MVP of the finals but you couldn't get your team the "W" doesn't seem like the highest value on the court. I just couldn't get on board with a FMVP being from a losing team. They may have been the best statistical player, but the stat that matters is winning the finals. It's not the best player award, it's the most valuable and winning is how value is measured. Great video though! I never engage in the comments section and you got me to.
I wanna see numbers on best finals mvp score compared to second best finals mvp score in each series or a percentage difference between the two. I think that would clarify who dominated the finals most in each series and would be a better representation especially since box plus minus is different for each series since some are higher scoring than others.
Would be great if you could also put a weighting on the opposition, some MVPs scored/played better against weaker/greater teams than others…this might throw out top MVP scorers since ‘85. Great video tho.
@Robin No hes not. All yall living in the prisoner of the moment. Steph never been the best player on a championship team, he was carried to two of his rings as the 2nd option, he hasn't dominated both sides of the ball like anyone in the Top 10 has, and he had a finals meltdowns only comparable to LBJs 2011 so bad in fact its NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE OR AFTER... 4 chips and 1FMVP POTENTIALLY is not Top 10, wake up and stop d-riding this sorry generation. Yall talking about he gon be Top 10 but don't even know who you gon take out cuz it ain't MJ, Magic, Kareem, Russell, Shaq, Kobe, Bird, Duncan, LBJ, or Wilt so WHO🤔🤔🤔
@Robin Only a casual would think your status and impact has to do with on-court accomplishments🤦🏾Your argument for Steph being Top 10 can't be hes the greatest shooter of All-Time and has revolutionized the game NAH, what has he done on the court tho??
Your legwork to go through mountains of statistical data and answer questions we all wonder about is so admirable and what makes you one of the best PLcliprs around. Great stuff, love it!
Ray Allen having the highest gamescore/impact, and still getting disrespected by the Celtics really shows that he made the right decision to leave at that time. He has had and will continue to have my respect for leaving and doing what is best for him.
My man Kemp , I was young for that finals but Kemp was my first and for a long time my favorite Jersey . Again this was a long time ago but without looking into it this would make sense based off the roster since Seattle had Gary Payton as well and was the "glove" for a reason and was probably guarding MJ making sense why his numbers were a bit lower and on the flip side Kemp was built like a shorted Giannis or a taller LeBron and I think Pippen and I think maybe Grant still? Not !00% on that so that matched up in favor of Kemp.
awesome video aside, i wanted to say congrats on the sponsorship, and that i hope you never feel bad doing them (as i feel like some do). people will complain about a skippable short ad, but if they had the opportunity to make money like that they'd take it in a heartbeat. i probably would too. thanks for the video, appreciate all the time you put into it!
The 2011 finals shows us why the mvp can't just be a matter of crunching numbers. Dirk Nowitzki led his team to victory against a stronger team. He was the heart and soul of that team, and undoubtedly their best player. And Dwyane's mvp score almost doubles that of Dirk's. Numbers mean nothing if your team doesn't win.
@Sam Ok then, Jordan should have about 8 or 9 MVPs then. The eye test is in the eye of the beholder. Why y'all still don't understand that is beyond me.
@david martinez Nah deep down inside Lebron should have 7-8 MVPs... he was robbed. People understand bruh... its not complex lol. The eye test and the stats line up.
Great video!! However, I would've liked that for context, you would've used the finals MVP given to Jerry West in 1969 as an example. Just to kind of put everything in perspective. Other than that...Jimmy doesn't miss!
8:42 the reason people don’t talk as much about Giannis performance is that individual stats have been climbing rapidly due to how the game is played. Notice number 2 and 3 are both in last 4 finals.
If you had actually been watching every Warriors playoff game you’d realize how important Looney has been for them. Game 5 wasn’t his best, but every other game he’s been pivotal. The last series could’ve went the other way if not for Looney, and I would’ve picked him for WCF MVP. Kinda dumb to be surprised at the article saying he has the 3rd best odds to take home the Finals MVP award, because it’s probably accurate.
If Steph Curry wins it all this year and caps it off with a Finals MVP then I think that immediately vaults him into the top 10 All Time List and someone's getting bounced out. Someone's gotta get the boot and I think it has to be between Wilt and Russell cause of their skill level, the eye ball test and the era they played in. Players from the 50s and 60s just aren't anywhere close to being as skilled as they are today. I mean you can't kick out Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Kareem or Shaq, they are more skilled all around and played in a much more skilled era. Also if he wins it all this year and gets the MVP then I think it creates a real discussion over who holds the GOAT Point Guard title between Magic or Curry. If Steph wins it all I've got him at 9th or 10th, I don't see how you could not have him in there since he'd have 4 rings. You could argue that he already is a top 10 player all time. I mean he's widely viewed as the greatest shooter of all time by light years and he's also single handedly responsible for changing the game. He's about to have 4 championships, 2 as the best player on the team, 2 MVP's, should have 2 Finals MVP's, is going to shatter Ray Allen's previous 3 point record by like 2,000 more 3's. He's going to nearly double Allen's total by the time he retires cause he makes 300-400 of them per season and he's only 33 years old. So you gotta figure he's good for another 1,500-2,000 3's. 1. Michael Jordan 2. LeBron James 3. Kobe Bryant 4. Magic Johnson 5. Larry Bird 6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 7. Tim Duncan 8. Shaquille O'Neal 9. Stephen Curry 10. Wilt Chamberlain 11. Hakeem Olajuwon 12. Bill Russell 13. Kevin Durant 14. Dwyane Wade 15. Dirk Nowitzki 16. Giannis Antetokounmpo 17. Kawhi Leonard 18. Julius Erving 19. Isiah Thomas 20. Scottie Pippen To me those are the best all around, most skilled, most complete players. Me personally I base my order around who was the most skilled, most complete all around player that could do everything. If you use that as the criteria there's no doubt that the 5 best all around players ever are Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, Magic and Bird. As great as the all those great big men were, none of them could even dribble besides Dirk and could mostly only score from 1-13 feet and only on post ups. To me that makes them more limited offensively when you compare them to Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, Magic and Bird who not only could score from anywhere on the court but could also drive to the hoop and were superior passers.
Jxmy, now that we know Steph did win a finals mvp, would you make a video sometime in the near future seeing if Steph can be considered as a top 10 all time player? If not what would he need to achieve that goal and is it realistic in his career? Honestly a finals mvp is all he needed to solidify his argument so what does that look like when you look at the numbers?
Can we all just take 1 moment to give some respect to Giannis. In the last 37 years, Giannis had the 2nd best score only behind 1991 Micheal Jordan. Thats how good Giannis was in that series
I was waiting for the segment where you compute the current finals standing regarding this year's finals, but great video anyway! always so entertaining.
@TheMusiqKing u sound real slow lebron NOT IN TOP 30? THAT IS THE MOST. ABSURD THING EVER if lebron is overrated then so are many other players like kobe mj kareem duncan by ur logic all these are overrated lebron top 2 isnt even an opinion its half the nbas opinion and no not just analysts there are players that say it too
@Bong Productions Lebron is great but overrated. If youre objective and think just past surface level, it becomes apparent that LeBron isnt in the top 30
@Kero also easier said than done, I'm pretty sure the coach was trying his best to stop Giannis, some players are just unguradable. There is nothing you can do about that, except try your best to lessen is fg%
In 2005, tim duncan didn’t even have the best mvp score on his team, when you use jimmys numbers you find that manu ginobli out performed duncan with a mvp score of 21.5. edit: I ran the numbers for 2011 as well and jason terry scored an mvp score of 19.4. So statistically, Dirk wasn’t even the best player on his team
This is by far the best channel for sports that I'm subscribed to (nothing comes close). I love your non-biased brutal numbers approach to arguments that elsewhere are comical more often than not. Thank you for this my friend. Love this channel!!
16 th on trending, Can't believe it, was with you guys from the beginning, can't believe, from where we started and look at us today. Love you Jimmy. Keep doing the great work ️
I barely watch any basketball but still love all those informative videos you make. I really appreciate the effort.🙏🏼 But after videos like this one, I always start to wonder if everything is about stats and scoring? Sure, basically everything in basketball is measurable, but as an football fan (soccer) I know that not always the best scorer/assister, is also the most valuable player. Maybe stats are just something everybody likes seeing because it amazes them (it sure amazes me) but from time to time I do wonder whether it also let‘s you pick the most VALUABLE player since there are other, non numerical stats, that in my opinion can‘t be ignored e.g. leadership etc. Greeting from Frankfurt where it‘s abou to be 36 degrees celsius (97 F)🥲
Giannis is way too underrated it’s crazy he averaged 35 13 and 5 in the finals and probably got better this year. By far the best player in the league in terms and current form and consistency.
@Jack Savage ..he's more profitable because he's talked about more. And he was more popular rookie yr because he way better than Giannis coming into the league. (Probably top 5 player in the league soon as he stepped foot on court) 2) He's more profitable because most fans first NBA experience is Lebron James being shoved down their throat. (Like I said kids are very impressionable) 3) The fans did love him start of his career but he burned those bridges a long time ago. (At this point he's just annoying and most fans want him to go away lol) 4) All I'm saying is NBA would be better served with Giannis at the helm
@Cappy 22 He is talked about more because he is more profitable so it doesn’t matter when there are multiple people more profitable than Giannis. Lebron was more popular even in his rookie season than Giannis even when Kobe was basically the face of the league, so your excuse makes no sense. Also I guess that every single person who is more profitable than Giannis also doesn’t deserve it? Is it fine as long as it’s not Lebron? 2. That can apply to multiple thing and that could also be an argument if Giannis was not profitable. 3. More people love him than hate him otherwise the NBA, a professional organization would not make him the face of the league. People like you can’t affect the millions of people who like him, whether you over exaggerate the number of people that hate him or not. That’s not very specific as Lebron and Jordan have been in multiple finals, and if you think that 2016 which peaked at 31 million views in game 7 is worst than the 11 million people who watched the Bucks vs Suns finals in game 7, your crazy. Now your bringing up Jordan because Giannis isn’t even comparable to Lebron in the first place. All of Lebron’s finals have averaged more views than Giannis in except in 2020. At this point your just making up stuff to help your claim without even fact checking. Lebron is more profitable simple as that. It doesn’t matter how manufactured you think it is, you could say the same thing about many people like Jordan, Messi, and Tom Brady. Sure they are heavily promoted by the media, but they had to earn their way and prove themselves to earn that right. If you can’t take the time to read through all my evidence, don’t bother replaying at all because I already answered a-lot of the points your replies in my previous comment.
@Jack Savage lol ok I'm not reading all that but once again "his sales are more, and his clicks are more because he is promoted and talked about more" (kids are very impressionable these days) 2) The Chinese fans favorite player is gonna be whoever the Chinese government tells them their favorite player is 3) Millions of people love Lebron and millions dislike him. Only Bronsexuals dislike Giannis. 36 million people watched finals when Jordan left. Under lebrons leadership they're down to 6 million
@Cappy 22 That’s not what Jersey sales and fan voting says. Your bringing your personal opinion unto others, Lebron has more fans than Giannis, that isn’t even debatable. Lebron has been in the league for too long and the only comparable player that bring sort of close to the same revenue is Curry. It doesn’t matter if you like him or not, it’s just facts that he brings much more money, maybe when Lebron retires it will be Giannis. You thinking he isn’t likable doesn’t really matter when millions of people love him. Giannis just doesn’t pull in as much clicks as other players, that doesn’t take away from his greatness though. Lebron has brought over a billion dollars to the NBA and millions of fans, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that Lebron has brought way more positives than Negatives otherwise the NBA wouldn’t make him the face of the league. He shoe sales and other endorsements are just way better and Giannis isn’t a worldwide known name like Lebron, Jordan, or Kobe.
@Houtaro Oreki No one expected him to be like Giannis, Lebron overachieved and even carried that trash Cavs team to the finals in 2007. Lebron did all he could on that Cavs team, no body expected him to play like Giannis.
Shawn Kemp is still one of my favorite players in NBA history... In his prime he was Giannis antetokounmpo to come.... I'm just glad as a fan.... His doing well after his Drug addiction kick
This is actually trending #5 currently Just take the time to Appreciate , this man For making these GOAT 🐐 VIDEOS He knows more about basketball then most Espn Analyst Give this made a job already🐐🐐🐐😭😭😭🤙🏾🤙🏾🤙🏾
Very interesting video. LeBron with 7 finals MVP's would certainly give him a stronger goat case. Even Wade winning this revised statistical version in 2011 strengthens the case that James wasn't quite as bad as people think in that series; for much of it he was standing aside for another superstar who was red hot. Pleasantly surprised to see MJ's 91 series take top spot. Would have thought it was 93, but he was remarkably efficient in 91 and with excellent assist and rebound numbers.
I really love how you take these topics and bust them wide open. Anytime I see you put out a new video I know that you're going to subvert expectations and give us a new outlook on something that is much more than meets the eye. Amazing work regarding the Finals MVP.
His videos are full of flaws. In this case it starts at 0:00, where he conveniently merges MJs 1995 comeback and his 1996 season one year later for dramatization. He's not legit.
Here’s something that might change the entire video. If the finals MVP was perceived differently to the point where the player with the best stats regardless of winning team, then bill russel might not have been perceived as a good enough player (depending on his opponents) and the finals MVP may have never been created in the first place or atleast not in the same way we know it today.
It would’ve been weird to see the FMVP go to the person on the losing team. It’s already weird that Jerry West got a FMVP, even tho he lost that series.
I know the stats didnt show everything, but the curry gravity is a thing you can only explain if you watch the games, durant only have 35 because teams fear curry giving him double teams every time he touch the ball, the record of double teams received in the finals is his, even today, with just 16 points and a horrible shooting night, golden state won because draymond, payton and others got easy ways to the basket by currys gravity
@P why are you bringing up giannis when that jusrt further proves my point? I never said giannis was bad nor did I say this year was his fault. I been saying that if middleton wasn't injured then they probably make the finals. That just shows that you still need a team effort for a championship. Giannis is already one of the greatest players in nba history and so is kd. kd had 1 bad series this year but he was on fire last year and that's my point. He came back from an achilles tear and is still one of the best in the league. "what if champions" bro did you even read what I said? Championships are team efforts and you're using that as the sole reason to base how good a player is. Jokic and Luka were playing amazing this year but they didn't have the teams to win it all. That's not their fault. Its a team sport so even when a team loses it doesn't mean a player on that team played bad. Lebron in 2018 was amazing but his teammates couldn't compete with that Warriors team.
@P My point is no matter who was the one guarding him he was still scoring on them, including giannis who big and one of the best defenders on the league. kd had an all time great series but his teammates didn't get the job done. Before jordan was a winner he had many great playoff performances but his teammates didn't help enough to win. That doesn't change how good he was bc winning a series still involves team success. A player can have a huge contribution to a win but without their teammates providing at least a small amount of good playing they can't win it all. If kd had proper support from his teammates then they would have beaten the bucks and almost certainly beat atlanta. They would have had a good shot at the suns in the finals, especially the way kd had been playing in that playoffs. The difference of kd having a championship in 2021 if teammates playing better, he did his job as the superstar
Great video but I adamantly disagree. The finals MVP should absolutely go to the best player of the series on the winning team. They had the greatest impact on WINNING. It's not like the season MVP which is based on your performance over a season It's based on the results of one series and it is accurately handed out. Imagine handing the award out to a player on the losing team. You take that player off the team obviously they still lose. The player on the winning team though, their performance actually changes the outcome. If you lose you lose
This was a fun video, but the idea of the most valuable player in the Finals award being decided on by stats alone does present a double edge sword to the Steph argument. Because as you've said, LeBron would have actually gotten way more and Steph still wouldn't have gotten any. Then if you make it only available to the winning team, again, it becomes not the actual most valuable player in the Finals award. The argument of course gets even more complex when you consider team vs team, and how one players team may or may not be better than the opposing team etc.. which, actually has a larger pull than many people realize. Notice how Durant has been complaining about being double teamed more than ever on the Nets, well, you couldn't double team him on Golden State because threats are everywhere. All that to say that I did think that Steph should have gotten the award back in 2015 over Iguodala, but as you pointed out, realistically, LeBron should have actually gotten it over either of them. I like the idea of the award going to the best player over all though, on the winning OR losing team. If there is a tie between the best players on each team, the tie would go to the winning teams player.
those 2 fmvps that ent to durant were overall still currys because without curry durant wouldn’t nearly have as good of a performance as curry took so much defense off him as curry was still the main assignment on the floor
9:20 i love when kobe bryant won the finals mvp over stephen curry, truly legendary stuff from a 41 year old kobe. (who somehow looks a lot like kawhi leonard)
As someone primarily into soccer where this isn’t a thing I had always quite liked how you you needed to win to get mvp. There is an argument that can be made that you can only be so valuable if you lose and also it discouraged stat pad or selfish pursuit of glory over team success However also as a mainly soccer fan the obsession with stats can sometimes be rather annoying. Like it is important but it can be dry or misleading. What about players who by being constantly double teamed and lowering their own scoring bit improving the team etc etc if stats were all that matters why even watch games?
Was he really robbed though? I didn't watch the series, but since we know the losing team couldn't get the FMVP, then should we count good performances in lost games as valuable? In other words, did Steph do well in games that were ultimately lost in the series? If so, wouldn't that make his case weaker, as judges would likely look instead at games won by the winning team? And if we say winning or losing doesn't matter, then it goes to Lebron easily, so maybe Steph has exactly as many FMVPs as he deserves.
Both Steph and LeBron demand a lot of attention from the defense, they are also willing to pass. This makes me wonder what it would have been like seeing them together!
@Reality Bites what an ignorant statement. He wasn't known as a shooter. He developed it. It wasn't an overnight thing. MJ and Kobe developed on how to shoot a three. Of course they are good defensively because Mike Brown is a defensive coach duh. It's like you're asking perfection from the guy. Not all of them are perfect. They have their flaws. It's what they do to overcome their flaws and become great on their own.
@Paolo Henson Lebron fans are blaming 2007 Cavs for their loss but FACT is, they were a terrific defensive team and all Lebron has to do is be a good Shooter.
@Paolo Henson still, you cant despite the FACT that MJ averaged 43pts against those Celtics. Him and Lebron are in the same situation, difference is Lebron is a POOR SHOOTER at age 22 while Jordan was already a complete package at age 22.
@Reality Bites Celtics were shocked but again, they still faced on the 1st round even though they became the champions. They knew the bulls were a one man show and swept them 🤷♂️
The metrics used seems a bit forced. Stats can be easily manipulated to show whatever you want to show. Adding +/- to the game score doesn't reflect impact and is unnecessary. And the MVP award is given more for aesthetics than just for stats. Those who love numbers hates it when the numbers don't add up, but those who write the narratives wouldn't care as much for real numbers, but only when it matters to them, and massages the stats to fit their narratives, which is the feel you projected throughout this video. Content creation is hard work and your efforts are appreciated, but in this presentation, your talking point never really touched on what made Curry MVP this season: He wanted it and worked his tails off to get it unlike his other seasons when he deferred to others.
I think you prove the argument that relying on “numbers and stats” so heavily is just a way for “accountants, fantasy team owners and nerds” to feel like they’re an authority on the game. Jordan could score 6 points in a quarter and absolutely control every play on both sides on the floor. Just like a player could score 43 points in a half and completely murder his teams chance of winning.
![Google Panics Over ChatGPT [The AI Wars Have Begun]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Nh5i5obZ8OY/mqdefault.jpg)
I think that Steph is special because he has a pretty unique scenario. He's shown that he can be a dominant second option, a dominant first option, and arguably an even more dominant off-ball player while also revolutionizing the game. I'm by no means a warriors fan (roll knicks), but my utmost respect goes to that organization and how they've grown steph to be the core
@ajanalysis7742 pretty sure everyone would want steph on their team lmao
Thank you as a warriors fan
@Justin Crawley Steph is still going strong after putting up 31, 6 and 5 on 48/43/86 splits. J.Poole and Wiggins getting better, with Steph at the helm, and the OG big 3 can compete for multiple chips.
@Savon Sanders imma continue to watch players likes Andrew Wiggins and Jordan Poole step up in big moments but you will never see it like that 😁
@Justin Crawley Zeke can't hold a candle to Steph's career. Steph is still at an elite level at 34. Where was Zeke at 34 lol? Steph can play at this level for another 3 years top no cap, but imma sit back and watch Steph's HOF career continue to unfold.
I know you’ve already put the asterisk that there are other factors than just the numbers that go into deciding the finals MVP. But specifically in the Steph / KD situation it’s so much more important, Steph is the arguably most unselfish star in the NBA, and when you rewatch the games you’ll see that KD could only put up those numbers and win those games cause of Steph’s magnetism of defenders opening up unbelievable spaces for KD. Steph sacrificed his numbers so another star can shine, he won rings for it but is always discredited because of it. Remember when KD left and Klay was injured and Steph was dropping James-Harden-in-Rockets-prime kind numbers? Steph can do so much more but he’s part of a system especially with Kerr’s impact on his minutes, it’s both a blessing and a curse. Still the best naturally gifted player in my books by a mile - man was born to play basketball yes!
While I agree with the concept, you can say any kid of a former NBA star was born to play basketball. Not necessarily pro, but they’re gonna be good
Defense were more fucosed on Steph in those finals with KD though, in some sense Steph made KD even better
Ain’t nothing natural about his gifts dude - that boy’s a straight up alien in my book lmao
Everything you said is correct but I disagree with that last part about being "naturally gifted". It kind of discredits the amount of work he has, and continues to put in.
i mean, yes, but curry playing the way he did allowing kd to put up ridiculous numbers means that kd is still the mvp, while curry supplemented his play.
I think the stats don't show how good was Dirk in 2011 because his legendary run wasn't because the numbers were insane, it was because he beat eight first ballot hall of famers in a championship run.
@Adonay you cannot tell me that THAT Mavericks roster was close to carrying anyone to a finals MVP
Imagine if LeBron didn't choke.
You’re misunderstanding, the best player in the finals was Wade that series. But Dirk was really good in that whole run, and the numbers show that, but they also show that Wade was better than him in the series
@Fredrick Mazeli Exactly. Who else on the Mavs deserved that award?
@Adonay he led his team to do it
Who else is back after Curry Finally won His 1st FMVP?
If kd stayed in golden state Steph would have more rings than lebron
There's a difference between MVP(voting wise) and best player on a championship team. One is visceral, the other nuanced. KD is the former, Steph is the latter.
KD put up big numbers his entire career, but he didn't win a title until he played on Steph's team.
Do you remember how the Cav's, defended Steph in the finals, before they signed Durant vs after?
@xTrusxtt curry actually had more apg in 2017 than kd
I have been a curry fan for like 8 years now
One significant impact of Steph's game isn't fully represented in his stats: That's his gravity.
His gravity was also one of the big reasons why KD could perform as well as he did in the 2017 and 2018 finals. I think if you want to compare Steph with other players you would also have to consider this. Since his gravity is one of his most impactful traits as a great player.
@Will Vrooman there were many plays in the 17 18 finals where durant just has an open drive to the hoop bc the cavs d just chose to put d on curry instead of playing on the ball. I still think kd deserved both but it wouldn’t have been possible if curry was not on the floor
@Brian Birnbaum he's a point guard
@Will Vrooman Nah this isn’t true. He’s a shooting guard. If he gets the ball he’s looking to score. His gravity allows his team to play 4-3 when he’s not scoring.
I think stephs gravity would mean a lot more if he had more assists. Not to say he has a bad assist count, but you’d expect a player with such good shooting to take more advantage of their gravity if you’re gonna claim their gravity as such a factor. Players with massively smaller shooting percentages such as Chris Paul put out much less gravity yet still get more assists than curry.
Don't you hate it when you go to a Warriors game and Steph Curry's gravity pulls you and 200 other people into his orbit for the next 5 days
highest quality sports content on the internet, makes the "media" look silly in comparison. love you jimmy
IM THE 1,000 LIKE LES GO. it was at 999 when i saw this lol ive never been the 1,000 like
I'm honestly not hating. But did you notice the editing errors in this vid. One table was used twice.comapring two players when he was talking about 2 others. and When comparing steph and Leonard, the name was kobe and steph
Unusual this girl gets naked on the basketball court during halftime plclip.com/video/JHlnjLXCZXc/wideo.html
Tabloid quality at best in terms of analysis, good storytelling though. His videos are full of flaws. In this case it starts at 0:00, where he conveniently merges MJs 1995 comeback and his 1996 season one year later for dramatization. He's not legit.
Make some vidyas
5:40 I too used to wonder why Dirk’s performance felt so good. One thing this model doesn’t capture understandably, but it’s significant and I think illuminates that je ne sais quoi Dirk had going: look at the points per game spread intra team. It was a low-ish scoring finals. Dirk’s % of team points allocation all series was tremendous. Never a night off. I mean look at game 3. Dirk shot 52% for a double double game high 36. Of the starters, a single player had double digit points. Technically Shawn had 10. But you get my point. He accounted for 42% of the teams points. Dirk didn’t have a Wade or Bosh. Jason Terry went off twice. But Dirk was efficient night in, night out. Eating clock, making shots count against a formidable big 3. It worked. And his play style was 100% the game changer.
@Jeremy Ness I'm just real, that finals doesn't make Dirk worse player because he is already incredible player and has amazing career with his MVP, title and Finals MVP and many other acomplishments, but in those finals Wade was better player than him.
@Jeremy Ness if you really thinks that, than thank you...
@Hristijan Dimitrovski The way you say things is absolutely adorable
@CYMotorsport anyway, he wasn't the best player in those finals, he was just the best player FROM, DALLAS.
@Hristijan Dimitrovski I’m blind? Why ? What’s the point of that? Do you remember that series? How he was guarded? There’s a reason the mavs gave him the green light. Bc he was THE guy and was guarded like it. Pretty obvious you didn’t understand my comment. Dirk never had anyone to help alleviate pressure or get open looks. Hence why I cited attribution mate. Pay attention
Aside from what the numbers show, i think we also need to consider how the opposing teams deal with the other players... I mean it's not really easy to drop 30 getting harassed and double teamed all the time
@AM you're clearly trolling. What does last year gotta do with this year?
@Brian Ventura Who lost in the play -in?
that what he did but lost in the play in :,(
Your prediction was close about the Celtics winning like a month ago, but warriors just took it, let’s go.
@Big Huncho52 jayson turnover
@Noobmaster69 so what
celtics had some dumb ass defense ideas in game 5 too.. disregard every other warrior, and stick to steph like glue. turns out the other players can make some big plays too
@Mi Chael are you high?
WAAAAAAARRIOOOOOORSS
Everybody forgets that Jerry West is the first and only man to win the Finals MVP on the losing squad. Happened back in 1969, Jerry scored 38 PPG and the Lakers still came up short.
With my series on this topic, I’ve had to think about this a LOT. Was cool to hear your thoughts on it, and hey, and choices are nearly identical! Haha. Keep doing your thing, Jxmy. You set the standard for the rest of us
It's all rigged stop believing this Bs
@JxmyHighroller what happened to your other videos like the time when Ariza and his uncle talked trash to young LBJ and The King totally schooled Ariza and his squad?
and the video with the worst NBA predictions?
those are some good stuff. worth re watching while waiting for your new contents
petty af
@E .R mark my words
@E .R so is 3 finals in a row landing on game 6 that's 666 (deceit)
The level of research and understanding of the game of basketball and that stats the go into are just insane. Jimmy is a godsend. We love you, Jimmy.
Being curious about the number Curry accumulated this finals, it's pretty great and his highest so far. With a 23.2 GmSc and adding 10.9 BPM it sums to 34.1 MVP SCORE, including 31.2 PPG 6 RPG 5 APG 62 %TS
What this tells me?
Stats not be sole criteria to judge.
So, Westbrook is a great player and can put stats but not valuable for winning.
I think the Mj and Giannis performances are even more impressive than the numbers showed. Both were really clutch multiple times and had some of the greatest highlights of the finals ever
Yeah, i think it would be interesting to see a stat describing the value of made shots. So a gamewinning threepoint buzzer beater, shot over the dpoy would be the most valuable shot and would a large score. While a completely wide open layup while ahead by 50 would add practically nothing.
With that stat we could truly see who performs bet on ball in clutch moments.
This is one of the things I always think. In my case for Manu Ginobili. He had a lot of great games, but he didn't put 35pts games all the time like other people. However, whenever he came on the court maybe he made 2 or 3 three pointers, but those were like massive at the end of a quarter or whenever the team needed that morale.
I think Kobe was the same. Besides the raw numbers, he was electrifying to play with. And that energy (as he said himself) is not something you can show in statistics.
The biggest thing I get from consistently watching Jxmy's videos is just how dominant MJ truly was. He's basically at the top of every freakin' stat. And, just behind him, is LeBron. Almost every time.
@Caleb A only reason that stat is true because he was playing with ZERO all star teammates during those seasons. He took a bottom of the barrel Bulls and brought them to the top with the help of Pippen.
@shovelware he's basically the cheat code character in a video game in real life
@david martinez so your holding a series he wasn’t gonna win against him you sound like a Jordan or Kobe Stan 😹
@Reese No excuse to get swept. Y'all act like Jordan getting swept in the 1st round by an all time great Celtics team is some kind of blight, so stop acting like LeBron getting swept in the Finals is just another day in the neighborhood.
@david martinez he got swept but does he have a chance of winning in 2018 no so your arguing about a series he was going to lose regardless
After watching kawhi and iguadola win finals MVP, I felt like they won the award because they were guarding LeBron. Not that they shut him down, but they were the primary defender on the toughest defensive matchup. That is why I think they won the award
Wasn’t just that,both had all around great games,they both played almost flawlessly within a teams cohesion
mannn it was really weird because legit everybody who had guarded lebron was winning it. it was weird tbh
Just gonna drop the congrats to the GSW for the NBA Finals victory and the Finals MVP Steph
choosing Wade over Dirk as a FMVP shows how flowed this method is, and shows that we can't base this on numbers only
@Ibnziyad Tariq totally correct. you can't perform as well when the whole opposing team is focused on you. but with that said, the argument in the video are still valid for comparing players that were guarded equally.
@Ibnziyad Tariq say u don’t know ball without saying it
@Ibnziyad Tariq nah cuz Wade was a much better defender too, u don’t realize there’s 2 sides to the ball
They chose Iguodala over Curry in 2015 lol
@Montage HQ you guys don't understand what best means then, of course Wade had great stats, since Dallas was focusing on LeBron. Dirk on the other hand was the focus of Miami's defense and scored at will in the 4th quarters, that is the best player
16 th on trending,
Can't believe it, was with you guys from the beginning, can't believe, from where we started and look at us today.
Love you Jimmy.
Keep doing the great work ❤️
As a non biased Bucks fan, Giannis’ performance in the Finals was legendary! From coming back after that horrendous looking injury, to the big game defining moments, and the 50 piece! He was spectacular and real NBA fans will agree. Props for bringing his performance up.
@Norberto Perez I’m a hawks fan, but Giannis is my favorite player. I agree with you that that game really cemented him among the all time greats even at his young age.
@TheKL04 exactly! Im not biased 😂. He was legendary either way
Unusual this girl gets naked on the basketball court during halftime plclip.com/video/JHlnjLXCZXc/wideo.html
i mean i think anyone with that body structure would dominate no matter what lmao bro has no skill theres reason his finals performence is overlook this guy just euro steped dunk like in 2k11 when you would spin and dunk on anyone that is just what gannis is no skill when his athlesism fades so will his carrer
FR
I'm completely okay with the Finals MVP going to a player on the winning team if the series isn't close. Giving Finals MVP to Lebron in 2014 or 2018 -- when his teams were utterly dominated -- would feel like the wrong result. Putting up great numbers doesn't mean much if it does not contribute to the team winning in some capacity. I'd support Lebron getting the Finals MVP in 2015, though, since the Cavs were 2 wins from the title with a team that was much less talented than the Warriors.
@SaltoDaKid if ur valuable, it should contribute to winning. ur not exactly the MOST "valuable" if u dont.
It’s called Finals MVP, team who win get the final trophy cause it’s team accomplishment. Final MVP goes to best player on the floor. It suppose to value the best player like Jerry West who outplayed other players but never won the award. Tbh that’s how it should of been.
they were matched with big 4 after 2016 so and numbers are the only thing that tells what a player has done in those games ........it does matter atleast it makes us know he put up a fight but the fight wasnt enough to beat the giants
Had a lil chuckle 9:22 “Kobe Bryant” when talking Kawhi vs Steph. Awesome video had to share with so many of my basketball friends. Legendary
One significant impact of Steph's game isn't fully represented in his stats: That's his gravity.
His gravity was also one of the big reasons why KD could perform as well as he did in the 2017 and 2018 finals. I think if you want to compare Steph with other players you would also have to consider this. Since his gravity is one of his most impactful traits as a great player.
I'd be curious as to the FMVP numbers in '96 for games 1-3, as it really seemed to me watching that series at the time that after getting up 3-0 the Bulls just took their foot off the gas until game 6.
It was Dirk's entire playoff run, not specifically the finals, that was so special. his series against the lakers and thunder were the truly legendary performances. In the finals he wasn't AS good as the previous two series, but still definitely the fmvp
@antisnot is this you crying about someone else's crying? Your definition of crying is confusing and moronic.
@Markel Scott well lebum fans don't know shit so there's that too
Unusual this girl gets naked on the basketball court during halftime plclip.com/video/JHlnjLXCZXc/wideo.html
he said someone would be crying in the comments about dirk and look who it was
Ratio + K-pop better 🤳🏼🤳🏼🤳🏼🤳🏼🤓🤓🤓🤓👶🏻👶🏻👶🏻👶🏻👶🏻
I dont think I have ever been let down by one of ur videos. They always are so interesting and fun to watch but the best part is the amount of effort and extra research that goes into each video, its truly amazing keep it up i love the vids
I just started the video, but already enjoyed the shout-out to Kemp's series. My favourite player at the time was, of course, MJ, but Shawn Kemp was definitely my second favourite, both these distant from the third. He is a criminally under-appreciated player. Sure, his peak did not last very long, but what a peak! Pure joy to watch play with Payton.
As I always say quality over quantity right?
Hats off to you! You always do such a great job in your stat line. The NBA should follow your guidelines because I've been thinking this way for many many years and always was disappointed when that MVP trophy was handed out to whatever individual player the NBA decided who should receive it.
Absolutely brilliant! This is a masterclass analysis!👏🏿👏🏿
I'm not gonna lie, at 9:18 Kobe looks very different than what I'm used to seeing. Didn't know he played for the Raptors.
@Herbmèscome again
@Herbmès ?
It doesn't matter we all know that all "BLACK" people look alike so..💯🤣
Coming back after the Worriers won the championship and seeing this unedited thumbnail is trippy. Dude never misses with these predictions. 😂
Worriers💀
plclip.com/video/cpYXxWPZ9EU/wideo.html
Questions how did lebrons numbers help his team win? Being most valuable isn’t about your stats but your impact to your team winning
Take him away and its probably a stomp.
This was one of the best videos I’ve ever watched Jimmy. Great job!
Impressive deep, objective and straightforward analysis, thanks!
These numbers do not even remotely make it objective. If this was how basketball contribution was decided then Steph would have 1 chip and LeBron would have 7. It’s sad that a video like this brainwashed people who don’t understand the game.
9:10 imagine Kobe against curry. Never seen a visual error like this on the channel. Mad how consistent jimmy is.
@Herbmès lol
I was worried I was the only one who noticed 😂😂 its cool tho jimmy still the goat
Unusual this girl gets naked on the basketball court during halftime plclip.com/video/JHlnjLXCZXc/wideo.html
It doesn't matter we all know that all "BLACK" people look alike so..💯🤣
@Imnospy why would he do that
I think it can be fun to look at advanced stats like this, but drawing conclusions purely off of stats like BPM really filters out a lot of the finer details of the game.
KD's NBA finals performances are criminally underrated
gotta know the numbers for this years Finals MVP, I doubt anyone outplayed Steph overall but would still love to see your breakdown
Love the vid, as jimmy can do no wrong. With that being said, if you watched that series, you know Iggy deserves his MVP. He absolutely exhausted LeBron for those six games, to the point where Bron's legs were absolutely flat in each of those fourth quarters. His defense alone put them in a position to win that series. Especially considering Curry struggled in two of their wins
Giannis’s Finals MVP would carry more weight if they factored “overcoming weakness” as a actual stat. Knocking down all those free throws speaks volumes.
Unusual this girl gets naked on the basketball court during halftime plclip.com/video/JHlnjLXCZXc/wideo.html
@Gabriel Manuntag bro you can’t really use the “nets were healthy” argument at all, that team was a complete shell of what they were last year. I’m pretty sure we all know the nets would’ve beaten the bucks had kyrie AND harden been fully healthy
@Big T annnnddd your point being? Idgaf 😭🤌🏽
@Gabriel Manuntag you just typed allat for no reason my boi I already know this…i just know the league scripted that shit n i can careless for scripted shit🤷🏾♂️
@Tee Why i believe this and im a giannis fan but them two teams still had injuries too. booker had broken nose, cp had messed up shoulder, covid and a bad hamstring. Giannis had a knee issue and jrue broke his hand
I love all these stats and the in-depth dive into all of the finals!
My only thought. When winning is the value, how can the Most valuable Player be from the losing team? You were the MVP of the finals but you couldn't get your team the "W" doesn't seem like the highest value on the court. I just couldn't get on board with a FMVP being from a losing team. They may have been the best statistical player, but the stat that matters is winning the finals. It's not the best player award, it's the most valuable and winning is how value is measured.
Great video though! I never engage in the comments section and you got me to.
You just said it exactly the way it was in my mind. Much love.
I wanna see numbers on best finals mvp score compared to second best finals mvp score in each series or a percentage difference between the two. I think that would clarify who dominated the finals most in each series and would be a better representation especially since box plus minus is different for each series since some are higher scoring than others.
Jxmy...always...always putting in that work to answer those questions we all wonder about. Love your videos!
Would be great if you could also put a weighting on the opposition, some MVPs scored/played better against weaker/greater teams than others…this might throw out top MVP scorers since ‘85. Great video tho.
You can’t deny Steph Curry has changed the game in a way we’ve never thought. Props to him.
What that have to do with FMVPs
@Robin No hes not. All yall living in the prisoner of the moment. Steph never been the best player on a championship team, he was carried to two of his rings as the 2nd option, he hasn't dominated both sides of the ball like anyone in the Top 10 has, and he had a finals meltdowns only comparable to LBJs 2011 so bad in fact its NEVER BEEN DONE BEFORE OR AFTER... 4 chips and 1FMVP POTENTIALLY is not Top 10, wake up and stop d-riding this sorry generation. Yall talking about he gon be Top 10 but don't even know who you gon take out cuz it ain't MJ, Magic, Kareem, Russell, Shaq, Kobe, Bird, Duncan, LBJ, or Wilt so WHO🤔🤔🤔
@Robin Only a casual would think your status and impact has to do with on-court accomplishments🤦🏾Your argument for Steph being Top 10 can't be hes the greatest shooter of All-Time and has revolutionized the game NAH, what has he done on the court tho??
@King-Ghost 2018 sorry
Steph AND Thompson together changed the game. Steph needs Klay.
Your legwork to go through mountains of statistical data and answer questions we all wonder about is so admirable and what makes you one of the best PLcliprs around. Great stuff, love it!
Ray Allen having the highest gamescore/impact, and still getting disrespected by the Celtics really shows that he made the right decision to leave at that time. He has had and will continue to have my respect for leaving and doing what is best for him.
My man Kemp , I was young for that finals but Kemp was my first and for a long time my favorite Jersey . Again this was a long time ago but without looking into it this would make sense based off the roster since Seattle had Gary Payton as well and was the "glove" for a reason and was probably guarding MJ making sense why his numbers were a bit lower and on the flip side Kemp was built like a shorted Giannis or a taller LeBron and I think Pippen and I think maybe Grant still? Not !00% on that so that matched up in favor of Kemp.
awesome video aside, i wanted to say congrats on the sponsorship, and that i hope you never feel bad doing them (as i feel like some do). people will complain about a skippable short ad, but if they had the opportunity to make money like that they'd take it in a heartbeat. i probably would too. thanks for the video, appreciate all the time you put into it!
The 2011 finals shows us why the mvp can't just be a matter of crunching numbers. Dirk Nowitzki led his team to victory against a stronger team. He was the heart and soul of that team, and undoubtedly their best player. And Dwyane's mvp score almost doubles that of Dirk's. Numbers mean nothing if your team doesn't win.
@Bruno No the MVP was clearly intended for the best player in the league. That’s why it’s a *regular season award*. Ah nvm this’ll get buried.
There’s nothing more overrated in sports than stats
Unusual this girl gets naked on the basketball court during halftime plclip.com/video/JHlnjLXCZXc/wideo.html
@Sam Ok then, Jordan should have about 8 or 9 MVPs then. The eye test is in the eye of the beholder. Why y'all still don't understand that is beyond me.
@david martinez Nah deep down inside Lebron should have 7-8 MVPs... he was robbed. People understand bruh... its not complex lol. The eye test and the stats line up.
Bro, ima subscribe!!!! The amount of information that you go through to make your videos should not be overlooked. Awesome videos man
Great video!! However, I would've liked that for context, you would've used the finals MVP given to Jerry West in 1969 as an example. Just to kind of put everything in perspective. Other than that...Jimmy doesn't miss!
I'd love to see this sort of format run on the regular season mvp
bro these videos are so addicting you make everything in the nba into a story its so good i cant stop watching
Please do this for the eastern and western conference finals mvp. Who would win if it was tracked all those years?
8:42 the reason people don’t talk as much about Giannis performance is that individual stats have been climbing rapidly due to how the game is played. Notice number 2 and 3 are both in last 4 finals.
If you had actually been watching every Warriors playoff game you’d realize how important Looney has been for them. Game 5 wasn’t his best, but every other game he’s been pivotal. The last series could’ve went the other way if not for Looney, and I would’ve picked him for WCF MVP. Kinda dumb to be surprised at the article saying he has the 3rd best odds to take home the Finals MVP award, because it’s probably accurate.
If Steph Curry wins it all this year and caps it off with a Finals MVP then I think that immediately vaults him into the top 10 All Time List and someone's getting bounced out. Someone's gotta get the boot and I think it has to be between Wilt and Russell cause of their skill level, the eye ball test and the era they played in. Players from the 50s and 60s just aren't anywhere close to being as skilled as they are today. I mean you can't kick out Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, Magic, Bird, Duncan, Kareem or Shaq, they are more skilled all around and played in a much more skilled era. Also if he wins it all this year and gets the MVP then I think it creates a real discussion over who holds the GOAT Point Guard title between Magic or Curry. If Steph wins it all I've got him at 9th or 10th, I don't see how you could not have him in there since he'd have 4 rings. You could argue that he already is a top 10 player all time. I mean he's widely viewed as the greatest shooter of all time by light years and he's also single handedly responsible for changing the game. He's about to have 4 championships, 2 as the best player on the team, 2 MVP's, should have 2 Finals MVP's, is going to shatter Ray Allen's previous 3 point record by like 2,000 more 3's. He's going to nearly double Allen's total by the time he retires cause he makes 300-400 of them per season and he's only 33 years old. So you gotta figure he's good for another 1,500-2,000 3's.
1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Magic Johnson
5. Larry Bird
6. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
7. Tim Duncan
8. Shaquille O'Neal
9. Stephen Curry
10. Wilt Chamberlain
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Bill Russell
13. Kevin Durant
14. Dwyane Wade
15. Dirk Nowitzki
16. Giannis Antetokounmpo
17. Kawhi Leonard
18. Julius Erving
19. Isiah Thomas
20. Scottie Pippen
To me those are the best all around, most skilled, most complete players. Me personally I base my order around who was the most skilled, most complete all around player that could do everything. If you use that as the criteria there's no doubt that the 5 best all around players ever are Jordan, LeBron, Kobe, Magic and Bird. As great as the all those great big men were, none of them could even dribble besides Dirk and could mostly only score from 1-13 feet and only on post ups. To me that makes them more limited offensively when you compare them to Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, Magic and Bird who not only could score from anywhere on the court but could also drive to the hoop and were superior passers.
Also I would love to see Michael Jordan’s reaction to the number comparison to Kemp in the finals.
Jxmy, now that we know Steph did win a finals mvp, would you make a video sometime in the near future seeing if Steph can be considered as a top 10 all time player? If not what would he need to achieve that goal and is it realistic in his career? Honestly a finals mvp is all he needed to solidify his argument so what does that look like when you look at the numbers?
Honestly, Steph deserves it
aaand now jxmy has him as 7th all time. lol
And he just did.
Can we all just take 1 moment to give some respect to Giannis. In the last 37 years, Giannis had the 2nd best score only behind 1991 Micheal Jordan. Thats how good Giannis was in that series
Also don't forget about Jerry West losing in the finals but winning the MVP
I was waiting for the segment where you compute the current finals standing regarding this year's finals, but great video anyway! always so entertaining.
one of the few on youtube who’s videos i look forward to watching!!! you’re the best Jimmy keep up the great work!!!
Jimmy kills it again… Facts over emotion
My boy finally got his Finals MVP💯
Giannis having the second highest FMVP score in the last 37 years is GOATED. He was that guy by far in that finals.
Unusual this girl gets naked on the basketball court during halftime plclip.com/video/JHlnjLXCZXc/wideo.html
@TheMusiqKing tell me one reason why he isnt top 30 and name 30 players above him
@TheMusiqKing u sound real slow lebron NOT IN TOP 30? THAT IS THE MOST. ABSURD THING EVER if lebron is overrated then so are many other players like kobe mj kareem duncan by ur logic all these are overrated lebron top 2 isnt even an opinion its half the nbas opinion and no not just analysts there are players that say it too
@Bong Productions Lebron is great but overrated. If youre objective and think just past surface level, it becomes apparent that LeBron isnt in the top 30
@Kero also easier said than done, I'm pretty sure the coach was trying his best to stop Giannis, some players are just unguradable. There is nothing you can do about that, except try your best to lessen is fg%
In 2005, tim duncan didn’t even have the best mvp score on his team, when you use jimmys numbers you find that manu ginobli out performed duncan with a mvp score of 21.5.
edit: I ran the numbers for 2011 as well and jason terry scored an mvp score of 19.4. So statistically, Dirk wasn’t even the best player on his team
This is by far the best channel for sports that I'm subscribed to (nothing comes close). I love your non-biased brutal numbers approach to arguments that elsewhere are comical more often than not. Thank you for this my friend. Love this channel!!
16 th on trending,
Can't believe it, was with you guys from the beginning, can't believe, from where we started and look at us today.
Love you Jimmy.
Keep doing the great work ️
I barely watch any basketball but still love all those informative videos you make. I really appreciate the effort.🙏🏼
But after videos like this one, I always start to wonder if everything is about stats and scoring?
Sure, basically everything in basketball is measurable, but as an football fan (soccer) I know that not always the best scorer/assister, is also the most valuable player.
Maybe stats are just something everybody likes seeing because it amazes them (it sure amazes me) but from time to time I do wonder whether it also let‘s you pick the most VALUABLE player since there are other, non numerical stats, that in my opinion can‘t be ignored e.g. leadership etc.
Greeting from Frankfurt where it‘s abou to be 36 degrees celsius (97 F)🥲
Giannis is way too underrated it’s crazy he averaged 35 13 and 5 in the finals and probably got better this year. By far the best player in the league in terms and current form and consistency.
@Jack Savage ..he's more profitable because he's talked about more. And he was more popular rookie yr because he way better than Giannis coming into the league. (Probably top 5 player in the league soon as he stepped foot on court)
2) He's more profitable because most fans first NBA experience is Lebron James being shoved down their throat. (Like I said kids are very impressionable)
3) The fans did love him start of his career but he burned those bridges a long time ago. (At this point he's just annoying and most fans want him to go away lol)
4) All I'm saying is NBA would be better served with Giannis at the helm
@Cappy 22 He is talked about more because he is more profitable so it doesn’t matter when there are multiple people more profitable than Giannis. Lebron was more popular even in his rookie season than Giannis even when Kobe was basically the face of the league, so your excuse makes no sense. Also I guess that every single person who is more profitable than Giannis also doesn’t deserve it? Is it fine as long as it’s not Lebron? 2. That can apply to multiple thing and that could also be an argument if Giannis was not profitable. 3. More people love him than hate him otherwise the NBA, a professional organization would not make him the face of the league. People like you can’t affect the millions of people who like him, whether you over exaggerate the number of people that hate him or not. That’s not very specific as Lebron and Jordan have been in multiple finals, and if you think that 2016 which peaked at 31 million views in game 7 is worst than the 11 million people who watched the Bucks vs Suns finals in game 7, your crazy. Now your bringing up Jordan because Giannis isn’t even comparable to Lebron in the first place. All of Lebron’s finals have averaged more views than Giannis in except in 2020. At this point your just making up stuff to help your claim without even fact checking. Lebron is more profitable simple as that. It doesn’t matter how manufactured you think it is, you could say the same thing about many people like Jordan, Messi, and Tom Brady. Sure they are heavily promoted by the media, but they had to earn their way and prove themselves to earn that right. If you can’t take the time to read through all my evidence, don’t bother replaying at all because I already answered a-lot of the points your replies in my previous comment.
@Jack Savage lol ok I'm not reading all that but once again "his sales are more, and his clicks are more because he is promoted and talked about more" (kids are very impressionable these days)
2) The Chinese fans favorite player is gonna be whoever the Chinese government tells them their favorite player is
3) Millions of people love Lebron and millions dislike him. Only Bronsexuals dislike Giannis.
36 million people watched finals when Jordan left. Under lebrons leadership they're down to 6 million
@Cappy 22 That’s not what Jersey sales and fan voting says. Your bringing your personal opinion unto others, Lebron has more fans than Giannis, that isn’t even debatable. Lebron has been in the league for too long and the only comparable player that bring sort of close to the same revenue is Curry. It doesn’t matter if you like him or not, it’s just facts that he brings much more money, maybe when Lebron retires it will be Giannis. You thinking he isn’t likable doesn’t really matter when millions of people love him. Giannis just doesn’t pull in as much clicks as other players, that doesn’t take away from his greatness though. Lebron has brought over a billion dollars to the NBA and millions of fans, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that Lebron has brought way more positives than Negatives otherwise the NBA wouldn’t make him the face of the league. He shoe sales and other endorsements are just way better and Giannis isn’t a worldwide known name like Lebron, Jordan, or Kobe.
@Houtaro Oreki No one expected him to be like Giannis, Lebron overachieved and even carried that trash Cavs team to the finals in 2007. Lebron did all he could on that Cavs team, no body expected him to play like Giannis.
Shawn Kemp is still one of my favorite players in NBA history... In his prime he was Giannis antetokounmpo to come.... I'm just glad as a fan.... His doing well after his Drug addiction kick
This is actually trending #5 currently
Just take the time to Appreciate , this man
For making these GOAT 🐐 VIDEOS
He knows more about basketball then most
Espn Analyst
Give this made a job already🐐🐐🐐😭😭😭🤙🏾🤙🏾🤙🏾
Very interesting video. LeBron with 7 finals MVP's would certainly give him a stronger goat case. Even Wade winning this revised statistical version in 2011 strengthens the case that James wasn't quite as bad as people think in that series; for much of it he was standing aside for another superstar who was red hot.
Pleasantly surprised to see MJ's 91 series take top spot. Would have thought it was 93, but he was remarkably efficient in 91 and with excellent assist and rebound numbers.
You're absolutely correct about WADE in '11. He was clearly the best player on the court!
I really love how you take these topics and bust them wide open. Anytime I see you put out a new video I know that you're going to subvert expectations and give us a new outlook on something that is much more than meets the eye. Amazing work regarding the Finals MVP.
Unusual this girl gets naked on the basketball court during halftime plclip.com/video/JHlnjLXCZXc/wideo.html
Ratio + K-POP BETTER🤳🏼🤳🏼🤳🏼🤳🏼👶🏻👶🏻👶🏻👶🏻👶🏻🤓🤓👶🏻👶🏻👶🏻👶🏻
His videos are full of flaws. In this case it starts at 0:00, where he conveniently merges MJs 1995 comeback and his 1996 season one year later for dramatization. He's not legit.
I pray that all your prayers will be answered 🙏😊😍
@MediumCoast8820 LMAOOO NAHHH
Here’s something that might change the entire video. If the finals MVP was perceived differently to the point where the player with the best stats regardless of winning team, then bill russel might not have been perceived as a good enough player (depending on his opponents) and the finals MVP may have never been created in the first place or atleast not in the same way we know it today.
then to start, it should be called playoffs mvp.
The thing is that Steph played amazing in almost all of those finals there was just someone who played slightly better than him
It would’ve been weird to see the FMVP go to the person on the losing team. It’s already weird that Jerry West got a FMVP, even tho he lost that series.
Can you show us the scores for all of the players in this finals?
I know the stats didnt show everything, but the curry gravity is a thing you can only explain if you watch the games, durant only have 35 because teams fear curry giving him double teams every time he touch the ball, the record of double teams received in the finals is his, even today, with just 16 points and a horrible shooting night, golden state won because draymond, payton and others got easy ways to the basket by currys gravity
@Ammon Quitalig Why?
@P why are you bringing up giannis when that jusrt further proves my point? I never said giannis was bad nor did I say this year was his fault. I been saying that if middleton wasn't injured then they probably make the finals. That just shows that you still need a team effort for a championship. Giannis is already one of the greatest players in nba history and so is kd. kd had 1 bad series this year but he was on fire last year and that's my point. He came back from an achilles tear and is still one of the best in the league. "what if champions" bro did you even read what I said? Championships are team efforts and you're using that as the sole reason to base how good a player is. Jokic and Luka were playing amazing this year but they didn't have the teams to win it all. That's not their fault. Its a team sport so even when a team loses it doesn't mean a player on that team played bad. Lebron in 2018 was amazing but his teammates couldn't compete with that Warriors team.
@kyrel jones what if champions. Giannis went through the exact same thing this year and took the Celtics to 7. KD had Kyrie and got swept.
@P My point is no matter who was the one guarding him he was still scoring on them, including giannis who big and one of the best defenders on the league. kd had an all time great series but his teammates didn't get the job done. Before jordan was a winner he had many great playoff performances but his teammates didn't help enough to win. That doesn't change how good he was bc winning a series still involves team success. A player can have a huge contribution to a win but without their teammates providing at least a small amount of good playing they can't win it all. If kd had proper support from his teammates then they would have beaten the bucks and almost certainly beat atlanta. They would have had a good shot at the suns in the finals, especially the way kd had been playing in that playoffs. The difference of kd having a championship in 2021 if teammates playing better, he did his job as the superstar
@Ammon Quitalig thats a good way to put what i was tryna say thank you
Great video but I adamantly disagree. The finals MVP should absolutely go to the best player of the series on the winning team. They had the greatest impact on WINNING. It's not like the season MVP which is based on your performance over a season It's based on the results of one series and it is accurately handed out. Imagine handing the award out to a player on the losing team. You take that player off the team obviously they still lose. The player on the winning team though, their performance actually changes the outcome. If you lose you lose
This is a very thorough breakdown. Keep up the awesome work
Great video bro, keep them coming. I’m here for it
I wonder how Luka's performance in this year's semi finals would stack up to these
This was a fun video, but the idea of the most valuable player in the Finals award being decided on by stats alone does present a double edge sword to the Steph argument. Because as you've said, LeBron would have actually gotten way more and Steph still wouldn't have gotten any. Then if you make it only available to the winning team, again, it becomes not the actual most valuable player in the Finals award. The argument of course gets even more complex when you consider team vs team, and how one players team may or may not be better than the opposing team etc.. which, actually has a larger pull than many people realize. Notice how Durant has been complaining about being double teamed more than ever on the Nets, well, you couldn't double team him on Golden State because threats are everywhere.
All that to say that I did think that Steph should have gotten the award back in 2015 over Iguodala, but as you pointed out, realistically, LeBron should have actually gotten it over either of them. I like the idea of the award going to the best player over all though, on the winning OR losing team. If there is a tie between the best players on each team, the tie would go to the winning teams player.
those 2 fmvps that ent to durant were overall still currys because without curry durant wouldn’t nearly have as good of a performance as curry took so much defense off him as curry was still the main assignment on the floor
If you look at the numbers for those finals, Curry still would not have gotten fmvp. It would have gone to KD or LeBron
9:20 i love when kobe bryant won the finals mvp over stephen curry, truly legendary stuff from a 41 year old kobe. (who somehow looks a lot like kawhi leonard)
As someone primarily into soccer where this isn’t a thing I had always quite liked how you you needed to win to get mvp. There is an argument that can be made that you can only be so valuable if you lose and also it discouraged stat pad or selfish pursuit of glory over team success
However also as a mainly soccer fan the obsession with stats can sometimes be rather annoying. Like it is important but it can be dry or misleading. What about players who by being constantly double teamed and lowering their own scoring bit improving the team etc etc if stats were all that matters why even watch games?
Was he really robbed though? I didn't watch the series, but since we know the losing team couldn't get the FMVP, then should we count good performances in lost games as valuable? In other words, did Steph do well in games that were ultimately lost in the series? If so, wouldn't that make his case weaker, as judges would likely look instead at games won by the winning team? And if we say winning or losing doesn't matter, then it goes to Lebron easily, so maybe Steph has exactly as many FMVPs as he deserves.
As someone who saw the Seattle vs Bulls series live. MJ ended most of the games at half time. Stats don't show that.
I literally read your words with you when you said it should’ve gone to lebron 😂
Another masterpiece! This is next-level insightfulness and context
Both Steph and LeBron demand a lot of attention from the defense, they are also willing to pass. This makes me wonder what it would have been like seeing them together!
@Reality Bites what an ignorant statement. He wasn't known as a shooter. He developed it. It wasn't an overnight thing. MJ and Kobe developed on how to shoot a three. Of course they are good defensively because Mike Brown is a defensive coach duh. It's like you're asking perfection from the guy. Not all of them are perfect. They have their flaws. It's what they do to overcome their flaws and become great on their own.
@Paolo Henson Lebron fans are blaming 2007 Cavs for their loss but FACT is, they were a terrific defensive team and all Lebron has to do is be a good Shooter.
@Paolo Henson still, you cant despite the FACT that MJ averaged 43pts against those Celtics.
Him and Lebron are in the same situation, difference is Lebron is a POOR SHOOTER at age 22 while Jordan was already a complete package at age 22.
@Reality Bites stop being an ignorant and being a hater. You're making yourself look bad 🤣
@Reality Bites Celtics were shocked but again, they still faced on the 1st round even though they became the champions. They knew the bulls were a one man show and swept them 🤷♂️
The metrics used seems a bit forced. Stats can be easily manipulated to show whatever you want to show. Adding +/- to the game score doesn't reflect impact and is unnecessary.
And the MVP award is given more for aesthetics than just for stats. Those who love numbers hates it when the numbers don't add up, but those who write the narratives wouldn't care as much for real numbers, but only when it matters to them, and massages the stats to fit their narratives, which is the feel you projected throughout this video.
Content creation is hard work and your efforts are appreciated, but in this presentation, your talking point never really touched on what made Curry MVP this season: He wanted it and worked his tails off to get it unlike his other seasons when he deferred to others.
Hey Jimmy, Love your work as always. I just noticed that at 9:10ish you have the stats for Kawhi Leonard labelled as Kobe Bryant.
It doesn't matter we all know that all "BLACK" people look alike so..💯🤣
I think you prove the argument that relying on “numbers and stats” so heavily is just a way for “accountants, fantasy team owners and nerds” to feel like they’re an authority on the game. Jordan could score 6 points in a quarter and absolutely control every play on both sides on the floor. Just like a player could score 43 points in a half and completely murder his teams chance of winning.
New Debate Question: Should FMVP be given out to just the best player on the winning team or the best player in the whole series?